[Devil Master]

Since someone has posted here claiming he would build a real working proton pack, and someone else will eventually post that again, I thought I would post this message to show exactly why you cannot build one.

If you are skilled enough, you can actually build a cyclotron, but it would be way too big and heavy to be used as a pack. And it requires so much energy it cannot run on batteries, so it cannot be carried around while in use
A cyclotron is fundamentally formed by 3 parts:
1) an acceleration chamber with 2 hollow D-shaped electrodes and an ion emitter
2) a couple of magnets to force the protons to move in a spiral trajectory
3) a high-frequency, high-voltage power supply
The last two are the reason why a real proton pack cannot be built.

Tim Koeth, a Physics student at Rutgers University, has actually built a 9-inch cyclotron and restored a 12-inch cyclotron. These are the dimensions of the acceleration chamber alone, the bulk of the magnets makes them much bigger and heavier.
Here's a photo of the 9-inch cyclotron, without the power supply. Note that the cyclotron is on a trolley and is being pulled with a chain.

Here's a photo of its power supply:

And let's not forget that a cyclotron has to be controlled to be actually useable. How do you control it, you'll ask. And the answer is: with a huge control rack. Here it is.


The 12-inch cyclotron is even worse. Here it is:

And here are the controls:


Now, do you STILL believe you can build a proton pack?

[Kingpin]

Devil, while I didn't read the entirety of the post, which I will do later... I got the jist from the photos and I'd like to thank you for taking the time to craft this topic.

As memory serves, we've had two, maybe three people claim to have invented a working Proton Pack or intended to do so.

...one which used a heater, an ordinary room heater... and another that used a coke bottle...

Waitaminute... coke bottle lens? I think somebody watched too much of Honey, I shrunk the Kids...

But the point remains, there's no way you can have a nuclear accellerator mounted to a backpack and not damage your spine.

[Peter Venkmen]

Sure you can, just use the machine from honey I shrunk the kids and make it back pack size lol.

I didn't really need to be told that. Obviosuly it would reire lots of equipment, but the way they're trying to make things more portable, it MIGHT be possible years and years later. Remember how big the computer use to be?

Besides that though, I don't think any would want to try to make nuclear equipment potable LOL.

[Devil Master]

Originally Posted by Peter Venkmen

I didn't really need to be told that.

If you didn't, good for you. But I wanted to prevent trolls to come here and say they made a real proton pack, to which someone would reply it's impossible and they'd say "If it's impossible, prove it". So I did just that, I proved the impossibility to build a proton pack.

[secrecyguy]

Originally Posted by Devil Master

Since someone has posted here claiming he would build a real working proton pack, and someone else will eventually post that again, I thought I would post this message to show exactly why you cannot build one.

If you are skilled enough, you can actually build a cyclotron, but it would be way too big and heavy to be used as a pack. And it requires so much energy it cannot run on batteries, so it cannot be carried around while in use
A cyclotron is fundamentally formed by 3 parts:
1) an acceleration chamber with 2 hollow D-shaped electrodes and an ion emitter
2) a couple of magnets to force the protons to move in a spiral trajectory
3) a high-frequency, high-voltage power supply
The last two are the reason why a real proton pack cannot be built.

Tim Koeth, a Physics student at Rutgers University, has actually built a 9-inch cyclotron and restored a 12-inch cyclotron. These are the dimensions of the acceleration chamber alone, the bulk of the magnets makes them much bigger and heavier.
Here's a photo of the 9-inch cyclotron, without the power supply. Note that the cyclotron is on a trolley and is being pulled with a chain.

Here's a photo of its power supply:

And let's not forget that a cyclotron has to be controlled to be actually useable. How do you control it, you'll ask. And the answer is: with a huge control rack. Here it is.


The 12-inch cyclotron is even worse. Here it is:

And here are the controls:


Now, do you STILL believe you can build a proton pack?

Thanks! Leave it to a student to prove can not be done. I bet he got an A+ on his project!

[Peter Venkmen]

Yesh, that's been happening alot. Some people's idea of a "proton pack" is just a flash light attached to a bottle. Theysay since gohst have negative energy, which isyet to be proven, then a light would be able to "kill it". Ideally than, the prop proton packs that people make are SUPER PACKS becauslly they have more powerful lights. LOL, too funny.

[Sinister]

I'd like to take a moment to second Peter Venkman.

Let's for a moment, ASSUME a particle accelerator could be reduced to backpack form. Afterall, look how far computers have come. What would that really give you?

A very expensive, very dangerous weapon. That's really about it.

Contrary to popular belief, movies are not science lectures. They invent science that sounds good. If anyone has seen SG1 "200" when Carter picks apart Martin's speech of how "the singularity is about to explode", you have a basic idea of what I mean.

The majority of the world doesnt accept ghosts exist.

The half that does generally has an uninformed opinion about them.

Out of those WITH an informed opinion, very few have done research.

Amongst those that HAVE done research, the very best SCIENTIFIC information that has been collected is observations as to what environmental changes occur in the presence of a Ghost. Drops in temperature, changes in humidity, distortion of the EM Field in the location. That's largely it. Even the idea that upon a ghosts entering a room the ION count of the room goes up is still yet to be proven at all. It remains a theory.

Let us then consider the fact that theoretically, there are many KINDS of ghosts. Residual Hauntings where there is an absence of consciousness and yet a visual and audio event, recurrs in one specific environment without any kind of interaction. Hardly the same kind of ghost as say, the Spirit that may appear fleetingly to an individual, often with no obvious signs they're a ghost until it disapears suddenly. Whilst the first kind of ghost may have a way of being neutralised, as it is just a sensory impression on time which logically must be made up of some physical particles, such a method would most likely have no bearing on a spirit, which if having a physical composition AT ALL, would be very different.

Then let us consider further the other varieties of ghosts that are theorised. A manifestation of negative emotion is said to be the cause of many poltergeiste scenarios, often when a teenage girl is involved. This energy itself would come FROM the girl. How do you destroy physically manifested emotion? No idea, but you can bet it would be nothing like that of the previous.

Let us now move on to considering the theoretical idea of a demon. Not usually individuals cup of tea, often people are happy to believe in God, and yet shun the idea of demons. Perculier that really... In any case, assuming such a creature exists, we are referring to an entity not of this world in any shape nor form, a creation of pure evil. Powered, in essence, by evil itself. A demon is strong, and most certainly does not enter our world fully, so why on earth should we expect that pure positive energy would affect it? There's certainly no scientific basis for that, as with the demon, theres less scientific evidence in general. And that says something.

Vampires: Oh yes, ha ha, Vampires. Ludicrous course it is. Except Vampires as we know them today are a product of Bram Stoker. Pre Stoker, vampires were etheric spirits of evil men desperatly trying to prolongue their life force by feeding on humans etheric life force. Ether - You find me a scientist that can quantify Ether and I'll eat my hat on this instance.

Not convinced? Still think its possible, even though there's no evidence pure positive energy would have any effect? Then let us consider whether you SHOULD "bust" a ghost.

Residual Hauntings: Not much to say here, but they hardly pose a threat, and mostly they'd be extremely interesting to historians, why would you want to eliminate it?

Spirits: This would have been a person's life essence... their soul. What would be the difference between locking a man in a small room all his life and trapping a soul in a small box, or even destroying it. Is that really right? And usually from most encounters a spirit usually has some form of message to deliver. Or some redemption to seek. In any case, if a spirit exists, then thats evidence of a soul, and, whilst this is a leap of faith, I'd say evidence of some higher being. WHat gives US the right to play God with someone's afterlife?

Ok, so say the spirit is dangerous? Very few aggressive or dangerous spirits last long at all. Chances are it would be gone before you located it. But even then, if an evil spirit returns, it's probably a lot more powerful than your little light gun.

Poltergeists: Sure, can see why you'd want that gone... but there's nothing to aim at. You gonna shoot the little girl? Usually such disturbances can be solved through therapy.

Demons: Sure you'd want to get rid of one of these. But frankly, if they existed. It wouldnt be possible. Big bad monster from the behind. Yep your little light gun will work. They DON'T manifest themselves, and by calling one out, you give it more power. The only way to expel a demon from your life is through your own personal strength, or that of someone elses. And even then, it's not permanent.


So ok. How are you going to fight creatures that arent governed by this worlds physics? How would you destroy something that wont manifest...? Answers on the back of a post card please.

Originally Posted by secrecyguy

Thanks! Leave it to a student to prove can not be done. I bet he got an A+ on his project!

And finally, you should realise that the best breakthroughs in science often come from University, and that not all students at University are simply tax dodgers wanting an extended party but do serious pioneering research into their field. That student was probably top calibre and was building a particle accelerator for another reason. He wasnt proving it couldnt be done, he was using it for his own purposes and a Ghosthead has brought to our attention to demonstrate what a particle accelerator looks like. You can insult students all you want when you could go off and build a particle accelerator.

[Sayingkingkilla]

Ok, even if someone COULD make an actual proton pack or backpack size cyclotron, it more than likely wouldn't be able to do anything to a ghost........

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by Sayingkingkilla

Ok, even if someone COULD make an actual proton pack or backpack size cyclotron, it more than likely wouldn't be able to do anything to a ghost........

Bingo.

[Kingpin]

Originally Posted by Sinister

Bingo.

That's the layman's translation of Iain's main post for this topic.